Jsky, TEDx and the dream of the red dot

Jsky 0:00

It's a lot of people's dream to do a TED talk. I know it was mine. And I didn't know if I'd ever get the opportunity to do it. When I started getting into the scene in Manchester, networking, blogging, doing events, I'd come dressed as a singer, songwriter, as a pop star. I thought, yeah, I'm I wouldn't dress like a r a rock star. And that got more attention actually than my music and it used to annoy me.

Simran Whitham 0:21

I do think that human intelligence and awareness has never been higher because we have access to so much knowledge.

Jsky 0:28

I disagree.

Simran Whitham 0:29

Okay.

Jsky 0:29

Sorry. I think that we're exposed to too much to the point where we trivialise a lot of extreme situations that possibly we'll never really understand within our lifetime. The doom scrolling, the endless looking at negativity, it will affect the brain. Um but I think what I want to do with my talk is

Title 0:49

This is the TEDx Northern Quarter podcast.

Simran Whitham 0:52

Jsky, singer, songwriter, and broadcaster. Welcome to the TEDx and Talks podcast by TEDx Northern Quarter. How are you feeling today? Do you know what?

Jsky 1:05

It feels really nice to be here. Yeah.

Simran Whitham 1:07

I've been waiting for this day. I feel like I've gotten to know you so well by now that it's just Yeah, it's just so informal since the day I called you to tell you you'd got been accepted from your application. And here we are now ten months later since I called you, and you're now just three weeks from stepping onto the famous red dot. How are you feeling?

Jsky 1:29

Excited. Um really lucky as well because like it's a lot of people's dream to do a TED talk. I know it was mine, and I didn't know if I'd ever get the opportunity to do it. Um really pleased you said yeah. So thank you for that. But I just think um, as far as public speaking goes, it's one of the greatest stages to be on, right?

Simran Whitham 1:52

Oh, absolutely, like as you just highlighted, and it was the same when I did mine, I dreamed of that red dot because there's also a little bit of it's so much prestige associated with it that a lot of us think that we'll just never be good enough to set over because you think all these experts, all these MBEs and doctorates and award-winning individuals, and then when you get that moment where someone says to you, Yeah, you've been accepted, you're like, Oh, oh, I get to actually do it. And I remember your application was really strong as well. Like you got yeses across the board. So I love that. For anyone who's listening to this that doesn't know how we do it, is that we have a judging process, and me and Andy get the final say, but we also let some of the speaker coaches vote as well, just so that it allows us to like get different opinions. And my partner sits with me, and his partner sits with him, so that we've got unfiltered voices, so because we're so embedded in this world that sometimes we think something might sound great, but then they've got those consumer minds, and then they'll go, Yeah, that would be good, or no, that doesn't sound very good. And you got what were you actually one of only two applicants that have ever been accepted to get yeses across the board?

Jsky 2:55

You see, no, that's crazy because like I am usually like I've always maybe it's just a perception thing, but I've always been like an underdog. Um I know you're speaking like about a little bit of imposter syndrome with sort of how you compare against other people that have done TED Talks and things like that. Like I never really had that initially. I'm always blindly naive in that if I want to do something, like my mum as a young child, I was always treated differently. She told me that I was special and I believed her. So I've always thought, like, if I want to do something, just do it. And if other people don't believe you, it doesn't matter, my mum believes in me. So like when it comes to applying for TED Talk, I've always wanted to do it, I've always believed I was good enough. I think the imposter syndrome for me kicked in when I got the yes, because then I started to look actually who am I sharing the stage with on this particular event and how do I stack up against them? But that's probably because I'm competitive as well and I want to be the best.

Simran Whitham 3:48

I know you're very competitive, and I know it's not about that. No, no, not at all. But and it's good though as well because it drives you because you want to be the best version of yourself as well. And there's nothing wrong with a bit of healthy competition in life, yeah.

Jsky 3:59

And also, I think with the message as well, I don't want to do a disservice to that because if I take myself and my ego out of the way, the message is so important, and if I focus on that and remind myself actually why I'm doing this and why there's a need for it, and why you guys said yes in the first place, then I think that will see me through.

Simran Whitham 4:16

Absolutely, and I might be a bit biased saying this, but the reason I was drawn to your application is that you and I are quite similar in a lot of ways. You were then just describing your mum as your biggest fan. My mum was the same. I put I come from a single parent household, and from the age of five, I knew what I wanted to be. And at no point did my mum ever say you can't do that. My mum went above and beyond to get me on the right courses, get the right training to help me achieve that dream. And my mum, like yourself, always told me you can do whatever you want. So I've never struggled with imposter syndrome, but I've also just because I think, well, you know, everyone's just people at the end of the day, we're all born the same way, so we can all just achieve the same goals if we put our mind to it. And sounds great, by the way. Oh, thank you. Shout out to Allison Whitman. I wouldn't be here today without her, and none of us would be here today having this conversation without her. So yeah, thank you, mum. And what I really loved about your application was social media. It was whilst I didn't talk about social media, I talked about a part of why social media is damaging community. And what really drew me to you is that you talked about how human beings have just used social media as the metric of how they compare their lives in today's society. Why, for anyone who's watching this, you went up against 200 people, 200 plus applications. Okay, it's the most competitive job application I've ever described it as, and you got accepted. Okay. Why did you choose that idea worth spreading? And fundamentally for those listening, what is your idea worth spreading? What is the title of your talk and what is it fundamentally

The Cost of Being Seen

Simran Whitham 5:43

about?

Jsky 5:44

Okay, so my talk's called The Cost of Being Seen. Um, I am obviously someone that's been quite visible in Manchester for the past 15 years, but um my actual talk focuses heavily on social media because that's been something that's driven um a lot of my jobs, careers, um, experiences, and also how we measure success nowadays. And it just became really apparent that if AI's on the rise, if bots are able to determine how many likes something gets, how many views something gets, how much engagement something gets, should we be concerned really? Because we're celebrating individuals based on an arbitrary number, and shocking, dangerous footage is massively popular at the moment. What sort of a lesson are we going to teach the next generation? Because I mean, you and I are fortunate, we were born before the internet, yeah, before social media, so we had a little bit of a grounding in in the real world before the social world took over, but ever since the lockdown, these kids out there that I mean they're spending too much time, if you ask me, focused on the internet, more time online than in the real world, aspiring to something that isn't even a plausible reality. And I just wanted to like I don't know, maybe zoom out a little bit and say actually, you don't need to be necessarily as successful as you think you do online. I used to think if I was gonna be a successful singer, presenter, have television work, it would be based on the number of followers I've got, number of engagement I've got, and there are so many jobs in that industry that still they'll say like you're not getting the job because you don't have X amount number of followers, and I don't get that because I've actually still been able to carve a path without that, and there's so many people in in the media industry that are successful that are either rubbish at social media or aren't on it. There's some legends that are in that category. So, how important really is it?

Simran Whitham 7:42

I fully agree with you because it's the same in my industry, it used to be it's changed a lot over the last few years, but it's so interesting that society deems those numbers as successful and it's never been easier for someone to buy followers. It's not about the followers, it's about the engagement that someone gets fundamentally. And you know, I've built a decent company and I've only got 3,000 Instagram followers, and yet I'm doing better than some people that have got 110k followers. It doesn't matter ultimately, it's about the conversion rate, but ultimately it's about what you're putting out as a person. But coming back to that, because I know you're very passionate about this. A lot of speakers, when they choose a topic, they've choose chosen something that means a lot to them a lot of the time because they've been through something or something that sparked them to want to spread that message. Sure. Has there been something in your journey or your relationship with social media, whether it was a series of events or a particular event that you feel comfortable talking about that made you have this relationship and outlook with social media that made you want this to be the TED talk that you deliver? Like, has there been something in that journey that made you go, we need to change our relationship with social media?

Jsky 8:46

I've seen a lot. There's been a lot of experiences. Obviously, I've I've been called a lot of things on social media. I mean trolling still happens, but um I'm also friends with people that have millions of followers that produce content that looks very successful, and I also see the amount of stress they are under to keep up with the facade, to to get the perfect shot, to please the PR companies. Um I've I've I've seen every side of it to be honest with you. Um and I just think it's it's really fascinating that what we perceive isn't always what is real. And um it's not as important as we think it is. And I just think I want to remind people that, and I know it's easier said than done because we all crave some sort of validation. Um and I mean I still post nowadays on the social media, and it's still nice. Like I still read the comments, I still reply to people, I still want to get likes, but if I don't, life goes on. I'll still get a job and still pay my bills.

Simran Whitham 9:50

And it's interesting because I'm at that point in my life now where I just post what I want, like that's just who I am. Like if you look at my personal Instagram, there's no there's no cohesiveness to it, it's so random. But do you feel that that comes with experience, or do you think that outlook comes with like getting older and you start to pursue, or do you think that our generation is a unique one? Because as you mentioned, I I was just old enough to remember PCs without the internet when it was just Word art, Microsoft Suite, and you played like the little computer desktop games and not internet. Do you think that it's our generation that can only really have this mindset where we've been able to almost because I've noticed with the millennial generation we are breaking a little bit more free of the chains, but I've noticed with Gen Z, Gen X, Gen A in particular, they are just chronically online all the time to the point where we're seeing this rise in health. What what where do you think that outlook that you now have has come from? Is it experience or generational, or do you think that it's just you as an individual?

Are you feeding the algorithm?

Simran Whitham 10:46

Jsky 10:47

I mean, there's so many different titles for categorizing people these days. I do get confused with the Gen A B C is like for me when we start to break people down into boxes, it's very easy to start allowing people to let themselves off the hook. Like I think we're all capable. It's just a matter of how much we want to do something and if we see the incentive in it. Um but the doom scrolling, the endless looking at negativity, it will affect the brain. Um but I think what I want to do with my talk is is actually shake people a little bit to the fact that sure there's a cost of being seen and being out there, but there's also a cost of the the anonymity and being on the other side of the screen. Like we don't realise fully the impact of doing nothing. Like people sometimes say, like when the protests in like silence is death. I think it's the same with social media, like when you turn your phone off and you're just left with a black screen and you see your own reflection back in it. That's the person who's still shaping reality. Do I dunno giving five seconds to watch a shocking video? You're feeding that algorithm, you're telling that algorithm, yeah, you like that, I'll show you more of it. Um and it spills into real life. Like I was saying to you earlier, like I'm a proud mancunian born and bred here. Like Manchester, love Manchester. Disappointed by Manchester, and I think a lot of my disappointment comes from how people interact in shared spaces. You get on the tram, people don't know how to behave themselves. Litter on the street, people on trains aren't the best. Um and I think people have forgotten that the internet is a shared space. So with the same respect, we need to sort of cultivate a better environment. And the way we do that is through our interactions. And we might not realise just how much power we've got, because you might be someone that I have no pictures on my profile. I don't do anything. All I do is go on it now and again and have a look at something. Just look at your screen time and look at and look at your feed like what does that say about the world that you're shaping?

Simran Whitham 12:59

That's such an interesting outlook as well. So you're almost saying that by feeding the machine, we're allowing the machine to cultivate the landscape that people actually interact with on a day-to-day basis.

Jsky 13:08

Yeah, it's a it's a cycle that I think we we let ourselves off the hook too easily with, and we just think, well, we're not doing anything, but sometimes not doing anything's just saying actually what you're faced with is okay. It's like that kid that gets bullied at school. If you don't do anything about it, you're saying this is okay. And if you're happy, I mean, with what you see online, and this is where it gets really tricky because what do you do? If you see something you don't like online, well, by watching it, you're feeding into it, and that person's gonna look at their metric and think, Yeah, I'm doing alright here. So, what do you do? Well, it's simple, you report it if it's not acceptable, and if you don't like it, you click on the act and say less of this, not more of it.

Simran Whitham 13:45

So, what would you say to someone who might have counterac counteract that by saying, Well, without seeing these things, we wouldn't be aware that some things are happening in the world. So, for example, without the age of social media, now the one good thing people would say is it gives a lot of people a voice to be able to call out certain behaviours, like we learn about governments that are corrupt. Like I get a lot of my news source from an unbiased political page on Instagram because I know that the people who run it do unbiased reporting and they just report the facts as it is without any political bias whatsoever to any party. And a lot of people would say that those people are allowing the everyday person to be able to have a voice on the things that they perceive wrong. But then what you're saying is someone might say, Well, I wouldn't know about this stuff if that didn't exist, or they see videos of war crimes being committed in war-torn countries, and yeah, those are awful. The fact that you're seeing those on the internet, but people become aware. But then the downside is you're feeding the machine to show you these awful things. So, where does the balance? I know this is a really hard question to answer.

Jsky 14:44

But it is the question to ask.

Simran Whitham 14:46

Where does the balance because at one point you do need to be able to see these things to be aware of what's happening in the world, because whilst it is we are, I think we're too connected, right? We also are connected to the point where we can know all these things. I do think that human intelligence and awareness has never been higher because we have access to so much knowledge. I disagree. Okay.

Jsky 15:06

Sorry. I think that we're exposed to too much to the point where we trivialise a lot of extreme situations that possibly we'll never really understand within our lifetime, but in a way where people think, actually, I've seen this, I know everything about it, I give an opinion that solves it really quickly, and we can't. We're exposed to too much.

Simran Whitham 15:23

No, I I can agree with that sentiment. It's where I was trying to go with it is that because we have access to more knowledge, whereas if you go back 300 years ago, a lot of people couldn't read because they didn't have access to tools a lot of the time until the church basically made the Bible available to most people, which then they could use to be able to learn. But what I what I was trying to get at with social media is a lot of people can use it as a learning tool to learn things, but then you get people who, as you say, do see themselves as experts on the subject, which is why I love the phrase that the loudest voice doesn't always have the best intentions. For me, it's more just where's the balancing act, though, because a lot of people would say the genie's out of the bottle now. So we have to either learn to live with the genie or do we try and shove it back in the bottle, but then risk breaking the bottle as a whole, and then we don't know what the outcome of that is.

Can social media still be a force for good?

Simran Whitham 16:08

Jsky 16:08

I don't think it can go back in anymore. Um, and in terms of where do we find that balance, I mean that is the question. It's um it's a practice, just like mindfulness is a practice, it's like going to the gym is a practice. We we'll have good days and bad days. Um I don't really know if there's a solution anymore, but just like you said, with people learning how to read from the Bible, just because the Bible was available don't mean that everyone decided to learn to read. And I think it's just reminding ourselves that the internet, social media, it's it's a tool, right? Yeah and you can learn from it. Does that mean most people are? I don't think so. I think if anything, it's making a lot of people lazier, quicker to jump to a decision, quicker to say an extreme comment about someone based on a really short video. Um I think we're going backwards.

Simran Whitham 17:00

I suppose that can be one of the downsides when anything becomes mass marketly available. It's to say you'll understand this being in fashion. Right. The second that the prime example I used to like to use is Kanye's Yeezys. So there used to be an exclusive line of shoe, yeah, but then when they became mass market, everyone started wearing them and the market value actually dropped now to the point where you can get the shoe pretty much anywhere. It's a weird analogy, but when something becomes massively available, we've seen it with AI. Okay, you might have seen on my stories, I'm very critical of this, the AI posters, because every Tom, Dick, and Harriet is using it for their for their businesses, and it's just so obvious when you're using it, like it's the fonts, the plastically look, and it's killing people's ingenuity and also just the creativity. And I'm like, What it's laziness at its core, and you're killing off a part of your brain that can do critical thinking and problem solving because you're just allowing it to, and like say it's a tool like any other. So I suppose in a weird way there's not really any right answer to this. I suppose I'm just trying to also offer that counter-perspective where someone might say, Well, what about all the good it can do?

Jsky 18:05

It can do a lot of good, but it just goes back to the point that it's down to the individual. Um, and I don't think most people have the desire to want to get to the next level. I think a lot of people are just happy to be comfortable, and there's nothing wrong with that if that's if that's what you want. I want a bit more.

Simran Whitham 18:22

No, I know you like making people feel uncomfortable. I know this has been a big part of your talk.

Jsky 18:26

It's not about making people feel uncomfortable, it's just a a reminder that actually we can do better. And maybe it's my upbringing, but I look around like say look in Manchester and I think, what's happened? Like, what are the standards today? Because this isn't it for me personally.

Simran Whitham 18:43

I will I will echo that same essay. I think just as a society, we can always do better, we should do better, and we should strive to do better, and we know better, yeah. Oh, we do, yeah. This has gotten deep. Like, so quick, like we've not even talked into you yet, we've just jumped straight. I like it. These are the conversations I like, but I want to talk a bit more about you specifically. So, your work it spans music, fashion, broadcasting, and you're very big on cultural change in particular. But what kind of connects those different worlds for you? What is it that drives you towards being involved with all those different worlds? Where does it

Refusing to choose just one path

Simran Whitham 19:18

come from?

Jsky 19:18

I mean, when I was younger, I was raised with the belief you do well at school, you go to university, you get a good job, um, you do that one thing, you do it really well. I was always told you had to pick one thing. And then I went to university and I came out and I thought, actually, I don't want to do one thing. I I I want to do everything that I enjoy. And I've done what other people wanted me to do. I did grace at school, I've got my degree, but actually this is my life. And if something makes me happy, then yeah, I think in the back of my head I still got the mentality of I'm gonna want to be the best at it, or the best I can be at least. But I'm still gonna not just limit myself to one thing. And um in terms of the fashion, I was always told to dress for the job that you want. So when I started getting into the scene in Manchester, networking, blogging, doing events, I'd come dressed as a singer, songwriter, as a pop star. I thought, yeah, I'm I want to dress like a rock star, and that got more attention naturally than my music, and it used to annoy me. Like the Manchester Evening East were the first to start saying like the Manchester Fashion Easter. I didn't even know what the word meant. I just thought, why are they calling me that? I'm a singer, I hated it. I thought, because it just came out as well. I thought it's it's a gay thing, they're saying I'm fabulous, and I don't want to be fabulous. Well, now I'm happy to be fabulous, that's the brand it works, and sometimes you get given gifts in life, you just gotta listen to the clues, you get given gifts, and if you you apply them in the right way, they can take you to where actually you're supposed to be.

Simran Whitham 20:46

Like, we don't always know the full journey, we just have to follow the clues, and like say for me, that was doing the things that I enjoy and turning up, and turning up is so interesting because I want to touch upon that, but it's worked out for you because to give the audience a bit of context, is that I actually had an experience of meeting you years in advance in a in a past life before I became an entrepreneur in a business, where I used to work at the Lowry. And it's interesting you said that label of fashionista because I used to be the social media manager and photographer for the Lowry, sure, and you actually came to a press night for um what was the play called now? Um, is it everyone's talking about Jamie? Oh gosh, is it or everyone's thinking about Jamie? Everyone's talking about Jamie. Yeah, and what go on.

Jsky 21:30

I'm asking Dino, I think I wasn't a little bit crazy to that.

Simran Whitham 21:33

Yeah, so and I remember that night you turn up, but I also said you were the friendliest person I took pictures of that entire night. I remember I got some rude people that night, part of the reason why I hated the job. But uh you were so lovely, and I just I remember asking you to re record stuff because the camera battery had died, and a lot of people would have just been irritated. But you you were just like, of course, take your time, I loved it. And the first thing that came into my mind when I when I was taking pictures was Fashion Easter, because that was just how Oh yeah, I was like, that is a fabulous dress, what you've got on. And I was like, has he made it himself? I was like, that was really nice. It was very glittery and it just stood out. But yeah, it's yeah, it was a long time ago. It's it's at least 2018, 2019. And then when I saw your face on the applications and your video come in, I was like, I used to take pictures of this guy at the world. At the Lowry, I know. Small world indeed.

Jsky 22:25

That's why he should be nice to people.

Simran Whitham 22:27

I was just saying this on the last podcast, is um with it with one of our guests that I used to work in their coffee shop. Right. And you'd have never thought that the student that was working in the coffee shop doing his uni work would end up asking the CEO of that coffee shop to one day step on the sta Ted stage for a conference he would one day run. The world is very small.

Jsky 22:48

Absolutely. And I've been friends with some very popular at the time people, um, and through proxy, when they've been a little bit unprofessional, I've in inherited some of their their image, shall we say. So there's always been an expectation that I'd be a diva or I'd be somebody that is isn't very pleasant to work with. But I've inside of me, I've always been a professional. Sure, I've had moments where I've acted out and I could have done better, and there's things in my life that you think actually I can learn from that, or let myself be in that situation again. But the same people who have at the time been bigger or better than I have, and looked down, mistreated me, disrespected me. Without being too braggadocious, where are they?

Simran Whitham 23:40

The one great thing about social media that I love to remind people is that you are never the master of it. No, you are everyone in everyone who uses it is a slave to it, and you're just the next up and coming thing. Like ever ultimately your time will come and go. Yeah. So don't my maybe this is just how I was raised. My mum always bred this into because I'm from a council state. My mum was a proud council of state mum. And she always used to say, Don't look down on people. You can't ever. Don't ever look down on people. My granddad, who was like a dad to me growing up, he was the same. He always said, Don't ever judge anyone. And that's just how I am. I'm maybe because I'm mank as well, or maybe I'm just the most biggest extrovert, but I just love chatting to people. Like you never know. Like I'll chat to I'll literally chat to anyone.

Jsky 24:21

Everyone's got potential, everyone is sat on something. Um, and the second we think we're better, like life will humble you. I mean, I'm still to get my day, yeah. But like we're all like going through this experience, learning, and we're all just one step away from greatness or life showing us who's in charge. Yeah, so we've just got to be a little bit nicer, I think, haven't we?

Simran Whitham 24:42

I love that. Yeah, we all need to be nicer to people, and you are very lovely, I will say. You thank you. Like I knew I knew that night, and it's probably paid off for you in some way. The fact that the fact that I associated you with being such a nice guy at the Lowry.

Being seen isn't the same as being understood

Jsky 24:54

That's nice.

Simran Whitham 24:54

You're very distinct, I'll give you that. You sat you stand out like a sore thumb, Mr. Fashion Easter. Yes, I'll never forget it. I'll never forget, but it was just how nice you were as well. I'll never forget that. And speaking of nice, actually, that ties quite nicely into some of what I chat to you about, which is you love helping people feel seen, specifically people in marginalised communities as well. And but for you, what is the difference between visibility and being understood?

Jsky 25:23

Well, I think being understood is more important. Um, ego craves attention, whereas human nature is to be understood, to be felt, um, to be appreciated. And I think um there's more ways to do that than there are to be visible. Being visible, stick someone on a stage, put them under a spotlight, you see and you have your moment, but then when the spotlight goes out, do you feel any different? Well, you might have done in the moment, but it won't last. But when you're understood, it changes you as a person and it will carry you through. And it's like one candle lighting a thousand. When you help someone to feel better about themselves, they'll pass that on and it'll change the world.

Simran Whitham 26:06

I like that. I like that outlook as well, because I'm very similar in that mentality. But you've worked in TV and business, and you know as well as I do that sometimes you see people that want to represent people and do good. But for you, how do you stop someone from making that become theatrical or becoming a label almost? We're seeing the rise of authenticity now more than ever, or people that seem like they want to do good for communities, but then it almost becomes like a performance that people do for social media. Yeah, like there's a there's an argument that I see on social media, someone I follow, is that and I'm I'm of two minds whether I like this or not, this approach where they feed hungry children in deprived countries, but it's obviously being done to generate clicks and views. But a lot of people say, but it does it really matter because this individual they're using the social platform to feed all these hungry kids, but then some people are saying, Well, this individual's only doing this to get likes and followers and brand deals. But then the argument again is that well, with that platform they're able to cure injustice in the world. So, where do you walk that fine line between actually making meaningful impact for those marginalised people that you're so a fan of, but then stop it from almost becoming this performative label that people do just for the sake of the very thing that you're talking about?

Jsky 27:23

There's so many ways to attack this question. Um, but first and foremost, like I am for everyone. Like, I am obviously um a black, gay, mancunian man, so this box is there, but fundamentally I'm just a human being, and like I am for anybody who wants to um do something that helps somebody else or just for themselves. I think it's particularly at the moment, guys are starting to talk a little bit more and open up about their feelings. That's a great thing, but in terms of like this whole idea of performing online, I think um even as an adult, like I turned 40 next year. Can you believe that? I don't actually believe that. Are you actually nearly 40? I'm 39, and it's like in the 39 years I've been on this planet, one thing I can tell you is that no one knows what we're doing, we're all just modelling behaviour based on what we think is the right way to act. You go for a job interview, you go for a TED talk, you're performing in a way where you think this is how I need to be in this given situation. But when it goes to how we transmute that online, then there's a lot more heightened performances I'm seeing, especially when you've got an accent. So, like I know some mankeen celebrities that I'm friends with, and I look at their social media and I'm like, that's not what she's like, what's she doing? But that's that's what she wants to be seen as, that's what's working for her. Who am I to judge? Well, when you put yourself online, everyone's gonna judge, and if it seems like more people are in favour of what she's doing, then maybe she's right and maybe I'm wrong. It's okay to be wrong, it's okay to not have all the answers. Um, it's just about your intention and what your message is more than anything else. But we're all learning.

Simran Whitham 29:04

Oh, we are, yeah, and off the back of that, really, because you mentioned about changing yourself for social media, right? How do you protect the real you, the person that's behind the public persona? But how do you how do you walk this fine line between protecting the uh real you and that image that you put out there? Because some people's whole livelihoods would collapse if they didn't have these online platforms that they rely on. So, how do you walk this fine line between someone who needs it to be able to live the life and also protecting who Jsky is or who Simran

Protecting the real you online

Simran Whitham 29:36

Whitham is?

Jsky 29:37

You know, I'm glad you said that because like because I used to be so heavily surrounded by influences and reality TV stars, like I used to want that whereby it was something that paid my life, but now I'm so glad that I've got a balance whereby I can turn it off and never go on it again, and I'll still be alright, I can still live my life, I can still pay my bills, it's not gonna affect me that much. I think when you get into that situation where you give everything to social media, you're putting yourself at a risk. Obviously, there's people making a lot of money that'll be like, well, it's a risk worth taking, it's making me millions. But for me, like I I don't know, I think I value my sanity a bit too much, and I don't want to be in that situation. Like, no disrespect to people out there that put pictures of the of the children online or parts of the life that possibly should be more private, people that video themselves crying. Um people even live streaming funerals. I mean, sure, you do you, but for me personally, that's something that I'm not really keen on sharing because there's Jsky for you, and then there's Jsky for my family. So, sure.

Simran Whitham 30:48

No, I love that, and you might have seen me smiling throughout that because there were some things you said. Like, I I'm a firm believer, I believe in democracy. People have free will, you can post whatever you want, but for me, kids are a no-go. Like, even when I have when I'm blessed to have my own kids one day, not even put I used to even tell my missus, or I would only post one photo and it's my hand holding theirs, and my missus went, No. No, my missus' like, no, but she was like, What people can do with that image today, no, don't want you'd be amazed. Like, we ask Elliot about this sometime, you know, one time. Me and Elliot had a deep chat about this, and he's seen some questionable things, but we won't go down that. But then it's things, it's just the crying thing, right? I'll I'll go on record saying this. I think there's something wrong. I don't I don't like cra people who film so it's just once you've gone there.

Jsky 31:33

What else have you got to give? It's like when people do OnlyFans again. If people want to do that, sure, but just realise that once you've gone there, if it's not got you the reaction you want, there's nowhere else to take it. You will never be looked at the same again. And if you're okay with that, then again, that's who am I to judge? But for me, God, if I was to drop a nude and no one liked it, devastation.

Simran Whitham 32:00

That's what this whole hatred, that's what the TED talks about. Remember the cost of being seen. I dropped a nude and no one likes it.

Jsky 32:06

You know what I mean? How do you come back from that?

Simran Whitham 32:10

Imagine the devastation of that. You put your heart and soul into a nude and no one likes it. Sorry, this is that's just detracted. I just that's a great analogy. I'm gonna steal that one. Oh man, oh that's brilliant. But I suppose, in that perspective, then, because you're very strict on your relationship with social media, but you also kind of rely on it a little bit in some ways. I know you go to a lot of PR invite events as well, and you use it to like promote a lot of the theatre shows you go to to help them exactly. What boundaries have you put in place for yourself or when you're working with others to protect who you are as a person but also how you interact with social media?

Jsky 32:50

Right. It's just um for me, transparency is important. Like, there's been PR companies in the past that have asked certain things and have had to say no, it's cost me opportunities, but at the same time, this is my social media, they don't own it. And I just have to remind myself like they might not see the value in what they're asking, but your your own personal value, your brand, and how you see you get to set that don't sell yourself too short just for an instant payday when who knows who else is watching and what's down the road if you if you sacrifice now what you're missing out on down the road? Believe in yourself.

Simran Whitham 33:26

Always believe in yourself, you gotta back yourself, yeah. You're here as a result of that. Thank you. Which I want to talk to you about. Yeah, this is obviously a TED X podcast for 10x Northern Quartz, the best TEDx event in the world, of course. But I want to ask you for you, what's it been like for you from that day you got that call? Me telling you you'd been accepted, because you applied, you got accepted. Yeah, and let's talk through what it's been like for you to go through the whole TED process. Like, what has this been what you thought it was gonna be? Has it been more or less? Has it been bad? You're allowed to say it's been bad. No, you're not allowed to.

Behind the scenes of Jsky's TEDx journey

Simran Whitham 33:58

Jsky 33:58

It's been um where are we affirming? Like I say, I applied for it because I believed I could do it, but when I got the call to say I was doing it, it kind of shook me because um do we all have things that we dream of and want to do? And sometimes we're actually scared of getting that dream because it's like, well, what happens next? Who am I because of it? And will I live up to my own expectations or other people's expectations? Not that that should even matter, but yeah, I got I got the result I wanted, I got accepted, and it just felt really surreal to the point where I thought, can I do this? Should I be doing this? Um it's been a great team. I've had speaker coach sessions religiously that have changed my approach to it. And actually, um the way I would have done my speech uh initially when I first said yes and got accepted, uh is completely different to the speech I'm delivering now because Elliot and yourself reminded me like that you picked me for a reason. So it's more important like not just to focus on the message but to how I fit into that message and to tell it from my perspective because obviously anyone can do a speech about a topic, but why should I be doing that speech about this topic? So I I've changed it to almost tell my story and my perspective in a way that hopefully will wake people up to the real cost of being seen.

Simran Whitham 35:23

Is the actual cost of being seen something you're holding back for the time? I take it there's no spoilers.

Jsky 35:29

There's no spoilers, it's just um it just might surprise people. I think again, especially with social media, like people are so lazy they want instant information, so your history gets lost unless you remind people, and the most powerful thing in the world is your story. This is just another way of telling my story in a way that people might not actually be aware, I guess. And I think it kind of brings home a lot of the message in a in a way where it's understood.

Simran Whitham 36:01

And what's it been like for you because I know you've done TV, I know you've probably had PR and media training for TV, but what's it been like to have public speaker coaching? Because a lot of people, well, one speaker last year described us as the X Factor of 10X's, you get accepted, it's like getting through to the semi-finals and you get put in the judge's house, and you I don't I don't know who Elliot is, obviously. I'd I'd I'd rather watch X Factor in sorry. You think oh Elliot Elliot Kay here that Elliot you're Louis Walsh Nicole Scherzinger Oh is oh he's Nicole, is he? Okay, I can get behind that, I can see that he likes the flair and the flamboyance, and he likes to fight for the things he loves as well. Yes, that was a terrible joke. Sorry, Elliot. And that the reason we put you with Elliot was Elliot was my speaker coach as well. Big shout out to Elliot. And I knew because we had similar themes of our talks that he would be the right one for you. And what's it been like? Like, how have you found receiving actual public speaker training? Because not every TEDx event does this, not some of them have one coach who looks after, and some of them just do master classes, but you've obviously had access to a dedicated coach, master classes. How has this whole thing changed your perspective of how you speak, really, or how you've been able to apply that to your talk?

Jsky 37:12

Well, first of all, thank you to you and Andy for that, and also to Elliot because he's been brilliant. Um, it's been challenging. I think everyone says they want feedback, but really what they want is you're doing a great job, you've got to smash it, ego feed me. But again, we're scared of the critic because the critic's gonna point out things that you don't want to be pointed out, but at the same time, we've not got either of those things here. What we've got is a coach, so he's really just trying to bring out the best of you and shape it to work in a way that is authentically your presentation and not what you think a TED talk should be, which is what you've said as well. And um, it's changed the way that I deliver it. I've learnt a lot of new skills, and I'm just going into it, not necessarily thinking about myself, but again, just focusing on delivering the message in a way where I can do justice to what I'm talking about and hopefully resonate with people out there. I'm excited.

Simran Whitham 38:12

Oh, I can tell you are. So we actually last week got all of the speaker coaches' feedback onto their speakers, and they I like to say the longer the paragraph, the worse it is. You only had two lines. Oh, really? So Elliot just put Jsky, he's been getting an A for effort. And it was funny you mentioned about the critic, because I could in the early days when I was watching the Masculist, I could see you weren't necessarily not necessarily a fan, but I could tell you I can tell. I can tell. I didn't I was trying to dimplify, I could tell you hated it. I can read people's body language. You're not used to being criticized.

Jsky 38:43

It was me it's because I criticized myself already. Yeah. So like I've already gone through that process. Then to get someone else, and I think as well, because of my experiences with the world, I'm used to other people having something negative to say about me, having to defend myself. Um, I don't I don't need to fight here. This is someone that's trying to mould me exact to be a better version.

Simran Whitham 39:04

That's all these coaches are. We wouldn't give them to you. If you were already good, you wouldn't even need to be here to begin with. But it was difficult. Oh, it is. I remember that yeah, last year on the masterclass of Andrew Egleton, he actually chose my script as the one that he did in front of everyone. And I at this point, Elliot had moulded me. It was the month where I was feeling cocky. I was like, Yeah, my script's sick. I can I can recite it off by art. It's amazing. Like, I didn't even need the script at this point. I was like just doing it, and then Andrew just ripped it and went, This is terrible, this is terrible, this is terrible. Live on all the corner. I'm a member. Oh no, no, but it was helpful in that moment because I look at it as very much like a swordmaster training you how to wield a sword, which is do you want to learn how to survive the fight or do you want to just learn how to sit down and die? And it was very much it was brash, but a few days afterwards, after I got because like my ego got boosed, bruised, and I was like, Andrew, what's he saying? Like, I've got to kill Elliot says it's an amazing talk, but then what you've got to remember is Andrew's only saying that because he wants you to be the best version of yourself, and I took that feedback and I really lent into the power of the pause. Yeah, everything we do is to make you the best version if you can, not just for the TED stage, but beyond as well. Absolutely, yeah. It's like a university course, you even get a certificate at the end of it. It's yeah, it's like class TEDx class of Illumina 2026. Yeah, but it you've been incredible to have with us as well, Jason. No, honestly, and I think you're gonna do an amazing job on September 11th. So, last question I'd like to ask you is if people remembered one thing about your TEDx talk when you walk off that stage, and if it was just one simple thought, what is it that you want them to walk away or put into practice in their day-to-day lives?

Jsky 40:50

Um accountability. I think we always like to say, like the problems are social media, social media gets such a bad name, and that just takes us out of the equation. But the truth is collectively, we are social media, so it's it's just a group of people in a shared space either watching behaviour displayed or displaying it. So um just holding ourselves to a higher standard, I think. That's all I want, really. Not much, is it?

Simran Whitham 41:23

No, not at all. I just want all of you to be accountable, all of you, everyone. All the time, just a little bit. No, I know. It's gonna be a powerful idea worth spreading, and you're gonna do a great job. But before we go, I can't let you get out of that chair just yet because we have a tradition on this podcast.

We are social media

Jsky 41:41

Okay.

Simran Whitham 41:41

What I have here next to me is the TEDx X Red Journal. Nice. And what we like to do is that we like to invite past speakers to leave a message, an idea, or a thought, or a question for the next guest to answer. And I've been waiting for this because this could not have been more perfectly timed. So the last guest to come on this podcast before you was a wonderful woman called Madison Ellen, who is one of the head of events and social media at our headline sponsor, Metrical, who is a social media scheduling platform. And I thought this question could not have been more aligned perfectly to the person who next comes on this guest. Okay. So, and this just worked out so beautifully. All right, the question that Madison has invited you to answer is if all social media shut down tomorrow, would people be able to build communities? Yeah, yeah, yeah. We were communities for hundreds of years, like literally, yeah.

Jsky 42:48

Like I know there's been like certain reality projects I've I've been a part of where I've had to have no access to my phone. And I'll be honest with you, for the days I was doing them, I loved it. But then when the project finished and I was given access to my phone again, and I was expecting to have missed so much, and no, I'd missed nothing. I think we should all have like at least like one day a year, like that's a national no phone day. Like I just think um it's a healthy thing to to separate the online world from reality. It's too meshed at the moment. We're spending too many hours online. So, yes, we'll be fine. Let's try it.

Simran Whitham 43:35

And on that note, Jsky, are you ready for September eleventh?

Jsky 43:39

I'm very ready.

Simran Whitham 43:40

Let's get it, my friend. Thank you for coming here today. You are welcome. Thank you.